Episode 82: From Pro Triathlete to Entrepreneur with Tom Oosterdijk

In this episode of Another Triathlon Podcast, host Jenna-Caer and co-host Josh sit down with professional triathlete Tom Oosterdijk to discuss his incredible journey in the sport and his transition from professional racing to new ventures.

Tom shares his experiences competing at the highest level, the lessons learned from qualifying for Kona, and the challenges he faced with heat stroke. He reflects on the importance of community in endurance sports, the rise of Hyrox as a fitness challenge, and how he’s bringing innovation to sports nutrition through his new business, GONNA.

Throughout the conversation, Tom dives into balancing business and training, the significance of setting ambitious goals, and the excitement surrounding upcoming triathlon events like the Ironman Pro Series. The episode wraps up with quickfire questions revealing fun insights into Tom’s personality and career.

Episode Highlights:

• From Weight Loss to Triathlon Glory: Tom’s inspiring journey, starting triathlon in 2017 to lose weight and qualifying for Kona.
• Overcoming Setbacks: Dealing with heat stroke and learning from the experience.
• Triathlon Mockery Podcast: Sharing fun and real stories about the sport.
• The Power of Community: Why post-race camaraderie is so important.
• Hyrox & Cross-Training: Why it’s becoming popular with triathletes.
• Beer Mile Tradition: Bringing fun and connection into endurance sports.
• Innovating Sports Nutrition: Introducing GONNA, a new venture simplifying athlete nutrition.
• Balancing Business & Training: How Tom is managing his new priorities.
• The Future of Racing: The Ironman Pro Series, indoor triathlons, and what’s next.
• Fun Insights: Tom’s personal take on goals, motivation, and passion for the sport.

Connect with Our Guest & Hosts:

🔗 Tom Oosterdijk: Instagram
🔗 GONNA Nutrition: Website | Instagram
🔗 Jenna-Caer: Instagram
🔗 Josh: Instagram

🎧 Tune in now on your favorite podcast platform or watch on YouTube!
💬 What’s your biggest takeaway from Tom’s journey? Drop a comment!

#AnotherTriathlonPodcast #Triathlon #IronmanProSeries #TriathleteLife #EnduranceAthlete #TrainingTips #Hyrox #GONNAFuel #SportsNutrition #ProTriathlon

Transcript

Jenna-Caer (00:01.134)
Welcome to another Trathlon Podcast brought to you by Mana Apparel. This week we're gonna have some fun chatting everything going on in Trathlon with a couple pro races coming up. We have the short course, we got the T111 and then we also have the start of the Ironman Pro Series at Ironman 70.3g long. But we also have a special guest this week. We're gonna have Tom Osterduck. I'm sorry, I cannot talk anymore apparently. What was it, was it Osterduck?

Josh (00:29.305)
Tom Osterdick, yeah, I think you got it right.

Jenna-Caer (00:30.926)
Okay, I'll edit that out. We also have a special guest this week with Tom Ostradek who's going to come on and talk about his experience in the pro racing, some training camps with Joe Skipper and his new nutrition product that he's got. So stay tuned for that. But before we get to all of that fun stuff, we got Josh here as always. What is going on in your world? Looks like another massive training week.

Josh (00:54.647)
another similar hour wise, almost 23 hours again swim, bike, strength and all the boxes are still getting checked and the body is still responding. So we've officially decided one more week of this volume and keeping the intensity up. And that will be our three week into two week out type session going into Oceanside. So from the two week point on.

Jenna-Caer (01:11.107)
Yeah.

Josh (01:23.269)
We'll start to bring it back down and actually get ready for the race. So it's been an awesome journey and really, really cool sessions. changing it up nutrition-wise, this week did a couple of sessions without fuel or without pre-fuel as much as I normally would. And those were both bike sessions. One was a pretty hard interval session with the 3 by 20s early, 4 by 20s early.

And without any carbs. And then I had a run off of, so about 25 minutes left in a two and a half hour ride. I took some carbs. And then again, last night I had my three and a half hour fat max ride, low wattage, where I went the first two and a half hours without anything. And then grabbed a couple of gels the last hour going into a four mile run to end my week and felt great. And the body's responding to burning the right fuel and.

the endurance long distance efforts are there. And now I'm going to be able to, to really fuel it on race day. Like we were just talking to Tom as people will hear later. So, if I could get one of those gunna shots, I'd be really good to go on race turbo button as he calls it. but it's just been, it's been really fun and I'm just enjoying all of the training and as much as we

are not the greatest swimmers in the world. I'm actually doing well in the pool. So it makes a huge difference in turning the car on, backing it out of the garage and actually going to the pool and showing up. think I swam four times this past week and have it on the schedule. haven't even looked at the schedule. At this point, it's just like, I'm pretty much doing a triathlon every day and showing up and doing that and enjoying it. And really at this point, the bubble wrap thoughts in my head start to show up. Like don't kick.

Jenna-Caer (02:53.336)
Good.

Josh (03:17.239)
something don't break a toe don't do this so

Jenna-Caer (03:17.422)
Yeah, now it's your three weeks out now.

Josh (03:23.031)
Three less than three weeks. Yeah. So ocean size, a Saturday race too. So you lose another day there. and I'll fly out the Wednesday, April 2nd and the race is on, the fifth. So yeah, got a house share kind of doing it the whole triathlon triathlete, team way. And, and we'll get a whole bunch of us in, in one house in the ocean side vicinity and share the whole weekend that way. And then we've got a.

Jenna-Caer (03:27.367)
yeah.

Josh (03:49.861)
group of I think over 50 of us from on a racing and just really looking forward to that a whole ton of activities planned. I'm going to go see the TTL movie as well too. So that'll be really cool with Eric and Nick dropping their premiere for their movie and and just a lot of stuff and a lot of activations and athletic brewing is doing a whole bunch of stuff as well. So I'll get to see some of my friends over there and it's just a it's a big week and I'm really looking forward to it because there's been more

Jenna-Caer (03:53.005)
Yeah.

Josh (04:18.383)
preparation for this than ever before. And at the same time, I'm very close to finalizing what my next career move is going to be too. So kind of working on the final touches there and hopefully that'll all come together like the same weekend. So we'll see. Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (04:27.406)
exciting.

Jenna-Caer (04:35.566)
That's awesome. Yeah, there's nothing like those race weekends, especially race like Oceanside. It really is the season opener in the triathlon world, at least in North America. And you cannot beat that energy, that excitement. just like it feels different there. And it's such a massive race, something like 3,600 athletes. And then you have all the top pros coming out to race for the pro series. So it's going to be quite the spectacle and quite the event. And you're definitely trending towards crushing that set five hours goal.

Josh (05:01.391)
Yeah.

I mean, that wasn't even part of the discussion when we started getting ready for Oceanside. And now it's like, man, if I don't go sub five, I might be disappointed, but it really comes, it comes down to the swim. mean, my swim has been 46 minutes, 45 minutes. It's no matter what transition T1 is long, no matter what, no matter who you are, it's a long transition. It's a huge transition area. It's like a world championships almost. So it's a long transition that, that aside, I will have a better.

Jenna-Caer (05:07.886)
you

Jenna-Caer (05:12.648)
that's what you need to go after those pickles.

Josh (05:34.497)
swim if I continue to do what I'm doing and mindset wise and I just know it's going to be even if it's five minutes faster that's a huge difference getting on the bike energy wise and I don't think there's much time I can take off the bike but there's much time there's more time I can take off the run by coming off the bike that bike course is just brutal especially if we get a headwind coming in but my aero position and being able to

Jenna-Caer (05:44.461)
Yeah.

Josh (05:59.617)
Stay arrow is way more locked in than it ever has been. think my position on the bike, changed a little bit more. I moved my arms out a little bit more this week, took the bike in, got it tuned up and ready for the race and got my arm pads out a little bit further and rode that a few times this week and felt really good. So I'm happy with that new change. And the last thing I got to do is just get my bottle set up and we'll be ready to go. And yeah, I'm excited for it. And I think.

We got half the team doing that race and then a whole bunch of you going over to Taiwan. So the training right now is pretty intense and a lot of them will be in Oceanside. I'll get to give them a good luck. yeah, how's your new training schedule going? Because it's a little different than what you've been doing in the past, like you said.

Jenna-Caer (06:32.545)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (06:44.522)
Yeah, definitely. It's been kind of a different schedule of basically two days easy, one day hard, two days easy, one day hard. And had a couple of big brick workouts this past week, two big brick workouts that were pretty massive. And how you were talking about the nutrition side and your body is more adapting to that fat out of patient work, spending some time without nutrition. I've been feeling the opposite for the first time because I've been doing these big brick workouts and each one

I've been doing race nutrition for everyone just to really kind of get it dialed in, see what the body can do and see how the legs feel afterwards. So getting a lot more brick workouts, a lot more carbs on board and definitely feel the difference in the actual training sessions and the recovery afterwards. But it does have that handoff means I'm a little less fat adapted. I can feel that a bit, but race day should be good. Have a good balance of all the fat application, more work in the

early season, let's say off season, kind of early season. And then now I've got the nutrition dialed in. So I'll be sitting around that 90 to 100 grams of carbs an hour using Morton in there. And this is the first race I'll be doing on Morton. So we'll see how it goes. But it's been crazy how many carbs I can get in just in training with that.

Josh (07:58.701)
Are you taking in a ton of fluid to just knowing that you're going to be in such a heart race?

Jenna-Caer (08:03.854)
Yeah, definitely. And all these training sessions like this one I had on Saturday, I'm doing them all overdressed. So I'm in the basement because currently it's minus 10 and snowing. So I'm probably not going to get to ride my bike outside before showing up race week, which is not ideal. But, you know, we'll see how it goes. I have a new position too. So we will test it all out on race day. You know, my favorite thing to do, go in and see what works during the race. But this weekend's training session, it

was just over four and a half hours with or by one hour.

at race pace, just seeing how many carbs I can get in, how it feels, no fan, wearing a tri-suit, long sleeve shirt, windbreaker. So really just getting that heat feeling going and half the heat training is one, adapting your body to it, but two, just mentally getting used to that discomfort because it is uncomfortable. And then off the bike went into 12 miles of kind of in and out. So a little faster than race pace down to race pace, a little faster and back and forth.

I was definitely smashed and happy to have another full rest day on Sunday, which is not something I often see, but the last two weeks I have enjoyed it quite a bit.

Josh (09:21.763)
That's awesome. My wife has an off day today too and she was like, what's this? I was like, I don't know. I might drag her to the pool with me. She can sit in the hot tub or the sauna.

Jenna-Caer (09:27.086)
What are you?

There you go, that's the way to do it Yeah, all things are firing four weeks out. So Ironman Taiwan is a week after Oceanside So we are coming in this week. don't often look ahead to training sessions, but it looks like I've got some more intensity and going in which it's always We'll see not always my favorite

Josh (09:33.285)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (09:52.75)
Bring down the volume, gonna start to kind of bring down that volume, bump up that intensity so you still get that activation and all the muscles firing. Just cruising towards race day. I also have to get my wetsuit out of the box. I didn't swim at all last year, so I've got this fancy, awesome, DeBauer wetsuit that I have not tried on yet. So.

Josh (10:07.343)
Hmm.

Josh (10:11.429)
Oh, yeah, you need to swim in that like 10 times between now and Taiwan to get that nice and stretched out. It's fast. It's nice. You're going to love it. You're be floating. Like all of sudden, Jenna's doing one 10 per 100.

Jenna-Caer (10:17.43)
Yeah, so I'm gonna have... Right? I wish. Yeah, so I'm gonna have to take that out of the box and start taking it to the pool, which I hate to do with a nice wet suit, but yeah, if I can't ride outside, I'm probably not gonna be breaking the ice to go swim outside before race day.

Josh (10:31.781)
Yeah.

Josh (10:38.489)
Well, you're going to love the wetsuit and yeah, I'm actually looking forward to potentially getting a new one from them. If it's shipped in time, I'm hoping to get the 4.0, but we'll see if it gets here in time.

Jenna-Caer (10:48.898)
Ooh, exciting. That's awesome. Well, I think that's it for our training this week. Unfortunately, Fede can't join us today, but he should be back next week. He's at the airport right now. But let's jump into, we've got a great interview with Tom. He really brings some great insight into the pro world of racing and some fun adventures with Pyrox and his new nutrition supplement, Guna. So we will pop in with that. I'll chat to you next week.

Josh (11:07.493)
.

Josh (11:16.933)
Thanks.

Jenna-Caer (00:00.984)
Welcome back to another Triathlon podcast brought to you by Mana Apparel. This week we're gonna have some fun breaking down the racing that is coming up this weekend. We've actually got a few events going on and we're excited to jump into it. But we've also got a special guest who we're gonna chat a bit about his pro career, what he's got going on right now with a couple of 4A's into high rocks and nutrition. So we're gonna jump in and chat with Tom Oskardak. Great to have you on, how are you doing Tom?

Tom (00:26.326)
I'm good, good. Yeah, it's Monday, start of the week. Always a great day, Kraken. It's early for you as it's like 8 a.m. So I'm always very rough 8 a.m. So I can imagine I'm a bit more awake if you're an early riser, maybe you too, yeah, doing all good.

Jenna-Caer (00:44.086)
Yeah, excellent. And joined as always by Josh. How you going, Josh?

Josh (00:50.861)
It's not as early as Jenna's, still waking up on a Monday morning after another big week of training. So looking forward to this one, as Tom said.

Jenna-Caer (00:58.684)
Yeah, well, you know, it should be a fun day. Tommy, haven't gotten into some green beers for St. Patrick's Day or anything. We're recording on St. Patty's Day.

Tom (01:07.754)
Yeah, in the Netherlands we don't celebrate any of that. So I wasn't even sure whether it was today or didn't, don't they celebrate that over the weekends in what is it, Ireland?

Jenna-Caer (01:18.114)
think a lot of people had a lot of fun celebrating it this weekend to deal with the hangover on the weekend instead of a Tuesday morning.

Tom (01:25.91)
But is that a thing in the US? St. Patrick's Day?

Josh (01:27.816)
Yeah. In Boston, there's a parade every year and it's usually, it's never on the day unless the day is on a Saturday or Sunday. So yesterday was the day of the parade. a day early. Same in Chicago, Chicago too.

Jenna-Caer (01:40.012)
Yeah, up here in Canada, got a. Up here in Canada, we got a lot of Irish heritage, so we definitely have some fun with it too.

Tom (01:48.256)
And what would you do on St. Patrick's Day? Like what is the fair comes along and then?

Jenna-Caer (01:53.814)
A lot of pubs with a lot of green beer. Yeah. That's just it. No. Well, let's dive into something that usually has a little less beer. Although you and Joe Skipper have introduced a lot more beer to the Traphon world with some of these beer miles. But let's start off with you, Tom. You have been a professional Traph lead racing around the world here. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got started in the sport? What started this crazy journey?

Josh (01:53.92)
Wear green and drink a lot of beer.

Tom (01:56.565)
Okay.

Tom (02:21.913)
Well, in a nutshell, really, I started off with Triathlon in 2017 because I wanted to lose weight and really found a new passion. At some point I also saw that I was getting pretty decent at it. Then I've raised as an age group for the first couple of years. I did my first full distance in 2018 and I won my age group then and I came in, I think, fifth overall.

So qualified for Kona, 700 meters in front of the finish line, I heat stroked. So I didn't finish in Kona and I had to go to the hospital with a pretty serious heat stroke. And then it became a thing for me, like I need to go back to the world championships again and as an amateur and like get that finisher medal. And that was the year where I made another really big jump in fitness. I raced, one of them was Iman Kork, for example.

where I came in fifth in between the professionals. That was the race, the Ironman, that Alistair Brownlee did his first race and he won.

Jenna-Caer (03:27.266)
I was at that same race actually. That's so crazy. And I came fifth among the pros too. It's bizarre. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, sorry to interrupt there. was just, yeah, funny to hear.

Tom (03:29.204)
Yeah, yeah, was actually, the weather was quite... Yeah, you did? cool.

What a history.

Tom (03:41.81)
And from there, fast forward, raised another year as an amateur and had some other like top 10 results within the professional field. So as of the year 2021, I could raise as a professional. So I got a pro license through the Dutch Federation. Have always raised since, so 21 till like 25 now. I've been really fortunate enough to be able to raise all around the world, even though that it's not for the win.

It is for me, it was a real cool experience. this year, I said earlier this year that this will be my last year racing as a professional because I'm not really doing it for a living. I'm not making money with the sport, but I do have a big, big passion for the sport. And now I'm still young enough to pursue something else in life. And that has been a real fun journey, but that's also time for something new.

Jenna-Caer (04:34.51)
Well, that's seriously impressive going from doing the sport just for weight loss to really getting into high performance and competing amongst the pro athletes and really seeing what your body is capable of that had to be a pretty cool experience.

Tom (04:46.952)
Yeah, I think everyone who does triathlon will experience it in some way because it's like an endurance sports and you put in a lot of effort and you can see your body changing and you can see, can push your personal limits. Yeah, that's been a quite, quite a cool journey. I think I've always been really fortunate to also be able to do it and had the opportunity to go everywhere and race a lot.

that made it like extra fun instead of like that you have certain limiters that you yeah aren't able to do it.

Josh (05:20.618)
Was sharing your journey always a part of the plan along the way? I mean, obviously with the weight loss, inspiring others is, is just comes in with the territory, but was that something that was always part of your plan to just let others know what you were doing to hopefully inspire somebody else?

Tom (05:36.5)
Yeah, I honestly think so because when I started Traflon really early on, had honestly no clue what to start and where to begin with. And there were a lot of people locally that helped me out and I've always really appreciated that. And later on I was on Instagram and I think I was one of the really early ones to, along with Traflon Taron and a couple of others that shared a little bit of the journey. that's where...

people knew me from instead of like, massive results. And of course, as an age group or at the time I had pretty decent results, but it was mainly that showing the highs, the lows, what I did for training and attrition that, a real top professional and still nowadays a real top professional, doesn't really give a lot of insights into, you know, what they're doing. And I've always been sharing that whether it's on YouTube, on, on my podcast with a travel mockery or, or with,

Or on Instagram. Yeah, I do think so because yeah, other people also, you can always be an inspiration to someone. You don't have to be the best in the world to inspire someone. also other people inspire me in a certain way if they share what they're doing.

Jenna-Caer (06:50.146)
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned, Trathlon Mockery here. You've got a podcast going on. How did that all start up?

Josh (06:50.262)
Very cool.

Tom (06:57.942)
It started a long, long time ago when Joe and I, met each other in 2018 in Kona on Hawaii. I thought he was another age group just like me. We just had a little chat for a while and we got to get along. After the race, we went out for dinner. The year after, we met again on Kona.

And we started chatting and we said like, all right, let's go to New Zealand the year after together and go on a long training trip. And we did some more training camps and then we said to each other, we should start a podcast and share all the fun stories because we thought there's something like from friendships missing in the sports that you know, stories or travel.

generally a sports where a lot of people take themselves very serious. And of course, in essence, you need to be taking yourself serious because if you're training for triathlon, it takes a lot of time wise, effort wise, and a lot of people have work jobs and families. So it does take a lot, but besides taking yourself or the sports series, you shouldn't be taking yourself too serious along in the journey. I think that's when.

a travel mockery once started and it started off as a like a fun joke. And I think along the way we we've had quite a lot of listeners. Yeah, it's still fun to do. Just like you guys are, for example, content creators and yeah, find your own passion in doing so, sharing knowledge and that's how you add value.

Josh (08:38.046)
Now, I would imagine just because this is your last season in triathlon, it's not going to be the last season of triathlon mockery though, is it?

Tom (08:46.294)
No, I think I will always continue to, or will always, in the coming times, I will continue to, if I get the chance to record podcasts, even with other professionals to have a little bit more of an insight. did one, for example, with Sebastian Kienle in December about more of the psychological effects of retirement. And I think that's like certain aspects that not really a lot of talk about, saying the psychological.

Jenna-Caer (08:46.99)
you

Josh (08:53.437)
Yeah.

Tom (09:15.958)
stuff with pro triathletes. So not necessarily with retiring, but like in general, instead of like just training, talking, training and nutrition. And also I always think that it's like good to record a podcast with, for example, Joe or someone else that's a bit less serious. I just...

It's like chatting to a friend and yeah, I just always enjoy doing it. And it's not really, I don't really see it as work. Like I've been doing it for three and a half years and I haven't earned a single euro with it and nor has Joe. So it's, yeah, it's pure passion to be honest.

Jenna-Caer (09:53.656)
Well, you guys definitely keep it interesting. It's a, you know, a lot of podcasts can be fairly technical, dialing in, talking about the nutrition, the training, and very specific on that. But you guys just seem to have some fun with it, which makes it interesting to listen to. But you guys are definitely a lot more unfiltered than most podcasts out there. So how many times have you guys kind of been canceled and come back in that three year period?

Josh (09:54.016)
We get this.

Tom (10:16.566)
I only think actually twice, which was one of the really like the start start. And I would say that was because some certain things got a bit taken out of context. and yeah, I still whenever I mean, the episodes are still online, I still don't reflect on it as saying something really bad, you know. And one time was when we had a discussion about

men and women and prize money. Where in my opinion, we showed both sides of the story, know, the pros, the cons. And of course, those are always dodgy subjects. But I think when you have a platform, a podcast that you should also in the form of journalism, sometimes ask certain questions. And of course, yeah, that...

It doesn't mean that you need to have a strong opinion about something. You should always think about the consequences and think about stuff, what you're saying. But that doesn't mean that you can't have an unpopular opinion. So for example, with that price money subject, yes, of course it's unpopular. But it's, we also set both sides of the story. So yeah, you will always have that. We've had it twice, but I also think that's why we're unique.

Jenna-Caer (11:26.215)
Yes.

Josh (11:37.132)
.

Tom (11:40.094)
That's why a lot of people listen to us because you feel an honest side on stories. And I would say the line is there where we talk about either racism, sexism and bullying. That's like a very line that you do not want to cross as a platform.

Josh (12:03.692)
So you, and I want to go back to, cause we, we, normally discuss like a triathlete, pro triathlete trajectory and into it. And yours was a little different, but you talk about the inspiring side, but you still became a pro triathlete through it all. And, I'm a, I'm an age group or who was an athlete growing up, but I'm nowhere near getting to becoming a pro from turning it up. now Jenna knows doing 20 plus hours a week of training. I'm just getting better myself. I'm not going to become a pro.

Tom (12:32.054)
Mm-hmm.

Josh (12:33.598)
What did you have in your childhood as an athlete growing up that led you to the point where like, okay, if I do turn it back on again, like you did, I have a chance to do something with this. Like what was your childhood like that, that kind of, it's not something that you just all of a sudden realized you were a pro.

Tom (12:50.71)
Now, I have been doing athletics until I was 13, but I haven't been doing swimming or cycling before it. So I was like a pretty good runner until I was like 13. And then I stopped with it. And when I was 15, 16, I went to like, at some point to university when I was 18 and just got into like, well, beer drinking. So I wouldn't say I've had a proper...

athletic kind of background or like a sports background during my youth. I would also say that when I got into triathlon, so in 2017, and when I was racing as an amateur in 2020, maybe the level was a bit lower. I don't know, but it was maybe easier to qualify as a pro because I wouldn't say that my results weren't that great. They were pretty good.

If I look at myself as a pro right now and the results that I'm getting and what the real top athletes are doing, it's my support. That's also why I wouldn't necessarily say that it's super fun to race as a professional. Maybe that some of the time that I was racing as an amateur gave me, would enjoy the sport a bit more because there was less pressure and you were fighting for the win instead of that you're fighting for.

a top 10, top 15. It's like a completely different ballgame.

Josh (14:14.668)
Yeah, I think I saw a number last week where it's like 40 % of the pros in the field last year made money of any kind with the prize purse. mean, it's definitely a struggle for most within the pro card field.

Tom (14:25.578)
Yeah.

Tom (14:31.318)
Yeah, it is. is. even in, I remember when I did Ironman New Zealand in 2020, I think I've had the second fastest Ironman time ever as an amateur. If I'm not mistaken, it was something like eight hours and 30 something. But nowadays there are amateurs going under eight. And even as a professional, I've never been under eight hours. I've also never done a really fast course, but still.

Jenna-Caer (14:50.998)
Yeah, that's crazy.

Tom (14:57.686)
Even if I would do a fast course, so this summer I am going to target that sub eight and then I hope it's going to work out. But I'm not even sure if I can do it. So it shows you that the level, even in amateur racing is like a super serious and that the level in the sport has just gone up so much and also in the elite field. So it was maybe a bit different when I got into it in 2017, 18.

Jenna-Caer (15:23.906)
And are you going to be targeting that sub-8 hour Ironman? that should be a good one.

Tom (15:27.552)
Copenhagen.

Yeah, because that's a super fast course and I'll just need all the luck on my side.

Jenna-Caer (15:37.122)
There we go. Have it all come together there. Well, it sounds like you've switched things up a little bit as you're looking at transitioning out of pro triathlon and had some fun with a little bit of a different sport. The High Rock series has become pretty popular and it seems like, I don't know if it was Joe Skipper that kind of kicked this all off, but it seems like everyone started doing it after he gave it a go and posted it.

Tom (15:58.93)
Yeah, there were some pro triathletes that retired over. So there was like a South African triathlete called Scott Bavel, a couple of years. He always made YouTube videos about his journey and I raised him in South Africa. And then after that, he like stopped with the sports and got into high rocks and another German athletes called Fabian Eisenlauer. I think they were like one of the first.

Joe and I were following them closely. So I think then Joe got inspired to do one. And originally when Hyrox launched in 2017, they launched with one race in the US and one race in Amsterdam. It was like in the early, early days or it wasn't, yeah, think it was 2017 or 18. And in 2018, 19, I was already doing quite something with social media. So they approached me in 2018, 19 to do, and Hyrox in the elite field.

in the Netherlands as one of the elite athletes. And I remember back then, I was like, all right, I will do one. I don't even think if I would have said in the end, I couldn't because I had an eye, But I was actually supposed to do one in 2019 when hardly anyone was doing it. And I do think that if I would have done it back in the days that it would have been an absolute joke because it is incredibly tough if you do one. Have you already done one? Hirox, one of you? No?

Jenna-Caer (17:21.934)
Now, have a try at it.

Josh (17:23.306)
Haven't definitely seen a lot of your videos and a lot of the videos out there and a lot of friends have done it. That's for sure

Tom (17:26.25)
Yeah, I would say there are some triathletes and crossfitters that hate about high rocks community that don't see it as a serious sport, but I don't think you can hate on any sporting event. There's a lot of people that like it and it's just so accessible for a lot of people. You don't need a 15,000 euro tri bike. You don't need to fly with your bike. You can do it with friends. So it's really easy to do.

Jenna-Caer (17:26.776)
Yeah.

Tom (17:53.086)
I do think it's a great workout to mix it into your winter routine, for example, as a triathlete because you're not necessarily doing very strength-based workouts, but it's all still high intensity. It's not too technical, so you're not too injury-prone for it. It's very good for your core, your smaller muscles. I just think it's quite awesome to do really. I do think that I'm going to keep it in there for the future.

Jenna-Caer (18:22.102)
That's awesome. Now, how was it doing that first event? Bit of a shock to the system or was it what you were expecting?

Tom (18:26.474)
Yeah, is a shock to the system because you're thinking, right, eight times. So for everyone that doesn't know, it's like eight times one kilometer run. And then in between the runs, you're doing certain workout stations, whether it's a one kilometer row or like a wall balls where you throw up a wall that's like six kilos or you need to carry very heavy dumbbells, pharma carriers. So it's like an hour, hour and a half workout depending on how fast you are. And I thought.

How heavy can this be? But it's just so different from endurance racing. Because if you're training for an Ironman or 70.3 or triathlon, it's all very... I mean, of course, interval sessions are intense, a triathlon in itself is never... It's intense in a different way. It's like a muscle fatigue, what you're fighting, a mental fatigue, rather than...

in an high rocks, it's like an hour at like your heart rate at threshold and you just want to give up within the race multiple times. It's like doing an FTP test, but then an hour, and certain exercises you just, because I had no experience, I wasn't really sure which muscle group it was going to target and how good I would be at it. so yeah, it's just really tough. It's just really tough, but it's, it's, it is really good fun. So the first.

Josh (19:47.744)
What is the hardest, what do you think is the hardest of the eight events for a triathlete specifically or for you in general?

Tom (19:52.438)
Tom (19:56.374)
For tri-fleet specifically, slash me, so you're starting, the running is never a limiting factor in our case. And then you're starting off the first exercise is a ski arc. Well, a kilometer ski is still an aerobic workout, so we can do that. We've got the endurance and the strength for that. And then the second exercise is like the sled push and then the sled pull.

I would say the sled push from all the cycling and running that our calves and legs are really strong to be in the top notch there. So that's not a limiter, but then the sled pull is like you need to pull it and you're pulling all the way from your lats, your arms and your back. And yes, we're doing swimming, but it's not really swimming. It's not like a power exercise. You you move in some water, but it's not like you move in 150 kilos on the sled. So that is a pretty grim one. And then after that one comes the burpees.

And the burpees is so tough because it doesn't really sound really tough because you're doing a push up, you jump up in the air, front forwards, you're doing another push up and then 80 meters. Doesn't sound a lot, but it's just such a high intense workout that you're coming in from the one kilometer run, your heart rate is already at max. You need to perform like 80 meter burpee broad jumps. That's just super tough. And then the rest is all right.

After that, and then towards the end, you've got the wall balls and the wall balls is also, it's just a specific workout that we don't train at triathletes. yeah, my whole body was just so fatigued that I couldn't even the first time get the ball in the air. So that took me like eight minutes. But I think as a triathlete, if you would train for it once a week, twice a week, that the adaptations will be so quick that you're like able to put a really decent time down.

Josh (21:42.892)
Especially if you did it with a teammate, with like a teammate too, right? can, you can take, share the time.

Jenna-Caer (21:43.064)
Sounds like it would just be a laughing burn.

Tom (21:48.468)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, that makes training just so much more enjoyable or a race, you know, you can, you can always enter. think if you're training for an Ironman or half triathlon, that you can enter a high rocks almost untrained and, with a friend, with a friend and do it with the two of you and, and, and it would be good fun and not too painful.

Jenna-Caer (22:10.72)
That's great. Well, you've definitely brought a, you and Joe brought a variety of different sports into the triathlon sphere. You also have your guys' beer miles that have become a bit of a tradition after Ironman. How did that kick off? Because I have never thought after an Ironman, I want to go run a mile hard while chugging beers.

Tom (22:20.991)
Yeah.

Tom (22:27.604)
Well, actually you were at the first beer triathlon of Triathlon Mockery. That was back at the, I was doing a video reportage at the world championships in St. George back then. And I did like a beer triathlon with Eric Lowe. And that is actually when the beer man was born. And I think after that, yeah.

Jenna-Caer (22:34.606)
I got it looking miserable for you guys.

It's in short.

Jenna-Caer (22:44.013)
Mm-hmm.

Jenna-Caer (22:48.11)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (22:53.344)
You guys did the swimming in there. That seems so much worse.

Tom (22:57.814)
That did make it worse, but the problem is nowadays that you can't really if you're doing like a beer mile that you can't do it with the swimming. yeah, we just started to organize it, doing it after the races really. I think what you see is, and that's also what you see with our podcast is people just, because a lot of the training is so, it's like, you're doing it solo. It's just such a soloist sport.

And people just are craving for friendships and a laugh and a people around them that the sports is already so lonely in itself that it's so good to have these catch up together. So after a race like a beer mile and to get everyone together and make it a bit more of a community rather than a solo sport in itself. Because we, a human being isn't really great as a solist for too long.

Josh (23:52.052)
No, it's a great thing to bring to the community too, because I think we're all in this to get along with other people as part of our mana apparel community and that's growing. And when we get to races, that's when we get to get together. But the training you do typically is on your own. There's not many of us that have the benefit to be able to go train with 20, 30 people every day.

Jenna-Caer (23:52.204)
Yeah.

Tom (24:01.45)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tom (24:13.248)
Yeah, but because you live in Boston.

Josh (24:16.808)
I live in Boston. Yes. I mean, I could go train with a few people, but I mean, again, then, then you're, then it's like going to the pool every day. have to travel to go train and, and the, pool is hard enough. So my training is done in my basement or, or now that it's getting a little nicer outside.

Tom (24:24.096)
Yeah.

Tom (24:31.552)
And the weather is quite horrific in Boston, so that makes it also a bit more depressing if it's cold outside for a long bike ride.

Josh (24:39.09)
Even worse for Genop in Canada.

Jenna-Caer (24:40.91)
Still snowing up here, so it'll be a while before I get to ride outside. Lots of time down in the pain cave.

Tom (24:41.599)
Yeah?

Tom (24:48.722)
then I should be complaining with 10 degrees and sunshine, 8 degrees.

Jenna-Caer (24:52.008)
don't tell me that. No, but it sounds like you guys find some other ways to get outside when the weather isn't great with some of the training camps and stuff you go on. It sounds like you guys have a pretty good time on those with a little bit of suffering.

Josh (24:54.71)
Ha

Tom (25:05.181)
Yeah, but I must say that for me, that's a little bit of the past really. In the past, I was always going away a lot, know, on a training camp to Spain for a month or like I've literally been traveling a lot in the first few years as an athlete, but that also costed a lot of money. And I'm in like an X stage of life as I'm turning 32.

And I've just literally just bought a house and you know, there's, there's other responsibilities coming at a certain age that you need to think wisely what you're doing with your money. And yeah, you can't just always be abroad. Everyone wants to be, either you need to live in Spain like a real athlete, but you can't be going abroad every now and then. But yeah, that was, that was the good times. And it's just really.

Josh (25:51.669)
you

Tom (26:00.65)
You should never take it for granted. I'm just super fortunate. I've been able to do that in the past and learned a lot from it, but I don't think I will ever do it again like that. I will be able to do it ever again.

Jenna-Caer (26:12.162)
there.

Well, speaking of new ventures, then it sounds like you you're part of something new around the nutrition world. Why you tell us a little about what's going on, what you're doing and what makes it different than what's out there?

Tom (26:27.417)
Well, I'll say at some point in 2019, I came in contact with a pharmaceutical company in Belgium and they were making certain products for world tour teams. So Lotte Soudal, Team DSM and these products weren't commercially available on the market. so they were always sending me over those products as well. And one of them was like a performance shot.

Citrulline shots, like a standard car thing and just the rest is like the standard stuff, especially the performance shot, cetera, was something they made specifically for them. And then at some point I thought like, why isn't this on the commercial market? And they said, well, it's not interesting. The market is too niche for that. And they're like a pharmaceutical company and that's not in their interest. So at some point.

I was first of all thinking like that is a great product and why isn't it on the commercial market? But then I was also looking at the nutrition market in general and thinking like a lot of the products that are out there are very complicated. You've got like either six different protein shakes or 20 different carb solutions, electrolyte solutions, supplement solutions. And especially for people like my mom.

she's got no clue what to take, because it's all so complicated. There's so much out there. So one other thing was there's too much out there. It's it's too complicated. Then the second thing is there's too much unnatural additives in a lot of the products. And the third thing is like, it's very unsustainable. a lot of the companies don't have any sustainability or not a lot.

And there's even like a four thing and that is that you're not able to see where the products or more importantly, the ingredients are coming from, where they're sourced from. And there's like a big difference in that where you're talking from a protein powder or whether you're talking about creatine. And in the end, we're tracking our sleep, we're tracking every fart yet when it comes down and we're tracking every calorie nutrition, but yet when it comes down to

Tom (28:48.288)
the nutrition, what we take to perform, we don't really care. So that's where I saw that I wanted to build a brand that's apart from branding. So if you look at a lot of the nutrition brands out there, they're very masculine. They're not necessarily focusing on women athletes. I would say the marketing is sometimes creamiest and I'm not saying every company, you know, I'm just saying some. So I just saw an opportunity there and I thought like,

All right, let's start. So this was already 19 months ago when we started to develop the performance shots under Dutch regulations because every country has their own pharmacy laws and pharmacy regulations. So we've been busy with that. And then you've got the whole trial of the branding, the website, the second, the third product development. But it's just, it takes really long also because we're busy working on different

sustainable solutions because that's in the end also what you want to offer or what we want to offer. So yeah, that's something I've been busy with. then literally two weeks ago that we had the launch of the company with our first product and that's the performance shots. That is the shots what I've been using over the last couple of years. But then we were using three different kinds of shots. So one was like a citrulline shot. One was the caffeine shot and it's not caffeine.

What you see from a synthetical source or from a coffee extract source, because what happens if it attracts in your body really quick, that means if you take, for example, a lot of coffee that you feel anxious and you get jitters, that's the same with a pre-workout powder. You've got a Brazilian plant, Guarana, which is far more concentrated in caffeine.

But it doesn't give you the jitters and the anxious feeling. And that's why they made these shots for the Pro Pelathon. Because in the end, caffeine is the most proven supplement for performance gain up until 4%. I would say almost everyone takes caffeine. In the amateur field, I don't think there's a lot of knowledge about taking caffeine for performance enhancement, but in the professional field, everyone uses it. And the problem with a lot of the solutions out there are

Tom (31:12.118)
The read of like very artificial filled with a lot of artificial sugars, other additives and very low in actual amounts of caffeine, which you need in order to get the performance bonuses. And that is you need around four milligrams of caffeine per kilogram body weight. And a lot of the solutions have around a hundred grams. So if you're, I would say Josh, you're like, what are you 84 kilos.

Josh (31:38.506)
Yeah, right around there. Yeah. That's the goal.

Tom (31:40.502)
Or 80, 76. You would need a real strong amount. You need to take sometimes six supplements. yeah, that's a solution that we want to offer and that's how it all started. So yeah, that's something that I'm working on daily now.

Josh (32:03.218)
And apparently I have to look for a house in Europe to come get on that program too. So I'll be, I'll be putting, up the real estate in Europe soon to come use the products.

Tom (32:12.546)
What do mean to pull out the program? yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you do. Yeah, you do. Yeah, we can't really ship to the US. So when we launched a week ago, originally, I had it open for for shipment in the US. And that's why upfront, people always say, you got to get started with a business because you'll learn by doing you know, sometimes you're facing problems that you never saw beforehand when you figured it all out. So

Jenna-Caer (32:22.956)
Yeah.

Tom (32:38.102)
beforehand we checked everything for shipment to the US and it was all good. We had the right tax numbers etc. But what happened is, so on our website we had the product it's around 44 US dollars for one product but then if you order three you get free shipping because shipping for us is 25 euros to the US which is quite a lot. So if you buy three products then we'll check the shipment.

But what happened was because you take free products as 2.1 kilos, they changed the shipment from 22 euros or something to 50 euros. And we already had something like 24 orders or 25 orders from the US. we did file all those orders, but it literally didn't make any sense to ship to the US because it's literally costing us money to send the products to the US. And that's also why a lot of the European

sports nutrition companies work through a distributor in the US because otherwise it's just, yeah, unaffordable, not sustainable.

Josh (33:40.148)
Yeah. So how are you marketing the product and teaching your customers how to use it? Like what is the use of it? When is it best to use it? And how is that going to be different for athletes going forward? Cause I know you talked about the caffeine sources itself, but what is the best use case scenario for your product?

Tom (34:03.438)
use case scenario, either high intensity sessions. So whether it's an interval training, hard swim session, long bike ride where you've got a tempo to watch the end or you're feeling really screwed. And races, whether it's a 5K race, 10K race, half Ironman, Ironman. Because what does caffeine do? Caffeine has basically, so you're waking up in the morning, you're really fresh.

And throughout the day you're making like a certain molecule that makes you feel tired. But coffee, caffeine or caffeine from Guarana blocks that feeling of feeling tired. So it makes you feel more awake. That's why when it doesn't work anymore, you feel really tired. You you got that crash and that's what you have, for example, with caffeine and less with Guarana

So basically your body is like a race car and our product is like a turbo button. So it doesn't replace a carbohydrate product because carbohydrates is like the fuel and this is more like the turbo button. That's how you need to see it. You use it during high intensity sessions. And for marketing purposes, would say we're going to start off just even though we're in whole of Europe, we're shipping for Europe and UK.

We're focusing for marketing on the Netherlands because it's very cheap for me, cheaper for me to do. And I can see what works, what questions come from them, what comes from the market. Because what I see now, there's a lot of women in Amsterdam that are really interested in the product. That's something that I didn't see beforehand, but it's because the product is all natural. It's got zero calories, it's got zero grams of sugar and all the alternatives out there don't have that. They've all got additives.

And you've got a lot of women that do want to work out. So these are all not triathletes. They're basically just women that go into Peloton classes or like a booty class, whatever. And they do want to have that kick and feel that energy, but they don't want to take up sugars, et cetera, because they want to stay lean. So these are all things what you figure out during doing rather than something you figure out beforehand.

Jenna-Caer (36:20.076)
Yeah, definitely. And when it comes to obviously starting up a business is a huge endeavor. And at the same time, you still have these Ironman goals of hitting that sub eight time. How are you finding that balance or attempt at balance to kind of do both right now?

Tom (36:34.76)
Yeah, it's hard. It is really hard. I'm curious to see how this is going to plan out, but definitely do not train like the years prior to this. I was training, I always had the priority and I trained around 25 hours a week. I would say on average now this year, maybe something like 14 hours. It's not a lot. I'm trying to get done.

and stack the most in the weekends and just throughout the days, I'll just try to get up early and do it in the evening. But I honestly can see that that's the price you pay. Yeah, that's the price you pay. And I'm just going to make the most out of it, but I also know that this is something that I want to make work and just need to put my energy into. And it's more important. If you buy something, for example, you bought a product and I've got a problem shipping or whatever, then

that needs to be solved because you are a customer and you paid your money to me. And that's more important than to me than me getting a run session done. So I would say the business now is a priority and sports is more like leisure, even though I still take it serious. I've got a lot of ambitious goals. The take on it is a bit different. And also motivation wise, I can sense that.

When you take the decision of I'm going to stop that you can feel that the motivation and that fire that creates what you had before is not as strong as what it was two, three years ago.

Josh (38:12.202)
You're kind of offsetting it though. mean, right. You're putting a lot of that energy that would go into training into the business and there's, there's your cup being filled. It sounds like.

Tom (38:22.596)
How many years have you been doing a triathlon for example, Josh?

Josh (38:26.092)
So I started four years ago, five years ago. So not long, but I'm old. I'm 47. So no, doesn't. PR after PR.

Tom (38:29.12)
Five years ago.

Yeah, but age doesn't matter as long as you're motivated. Yeah, you're motivated enough. And what's your goal, for example, with the you just want to get a better version of yourself or are you like ambitious and...

Jenna-Caer (38:39.202)
you

Josh (38:48.532)
No, I mean, so I think the end goal would up for me would be to qualify for a world championship, without too much of a roll down would be nice. not being at the right race, but sub five is a goal for this year. And, and then, getting into my first full distance Ironman eventually, and, and, and maybe getting to Kona or to the world's there. and then sub three in the marathon is my, my goals this year for me, coming from somebody who was running a four 30 marathon a year and a half ago.

Tom (39:18.742)
Yeah, well, there you go. You know, you've got some sort of a line planned out for yourself and you ultimately want to see yourself at the world championships. But the most important thing is that you have a goal where you want to work towards to. And I think for me, the goals that I have in sports are already something apart from a time I've achieved. And I can just sense that that then is a fire.

that is not as strong as when you have a goal like what you have right now.

Josh (39:52.332)
Yeah. And I see some similarities too, because what I'm doing right now with my career full-time is kind of coupling it with the athletic passions as well and moving more into a full-time career in the sport or around the sport. So you're staying in the sport by providing a product and that's really cool. And I think more and more people are these days are starting to follow their passions and make it a career as well.

Tom (40:18.39)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's not easy. The easy way would have been, for example, I studied international tax. can work still at an international tax law firm and have a comfort of getting like a paycheck every month instead of starting something uncertain and putting all my savings into this. But I do know that sports is my passion.

And I like the sports world so much that I think, yeah, that's always more sustainable for the future for yourself.

Josh (40:53.804)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (40:54.22)
Yeah, definitely. And it seems with as triathletes and people are very A type motivated at times, we almost need that adrenaline of the challenge to keep us keep us going keep us motivated, whether it is trap on or work or life or anything. The status quo is hard.

Tom (41:07.296)
Yeah, but the goals are so insane. know, even if you're, whether you're talking like I want to finish an Ironman, like the time doesn't even matter. But the input, what it takes to be able to finish something like that just takes so much sacrifices that you got to be feeling motivated. If you don't have it, then you don't need that for a 5k or 10k or half marathon. You know, can train five hours a week and.

do well at that but that's different with an Iron Man.

Jenna-Caer (41:41.102)
Well, let's talk about something that is pretty much as far as you can get from an Ironman and stay within the triathlon sport. We've got some pro racing coming up this weekend with a not quite a new event, but the T100 has taken over a race that is a lot shorter than their usual distance with the T1. So this is an indoor triathlon and it's actually counting as a World Cup for points for the WTCS series. And this race is going to be a 200 meter swim, 2.8 kilometer bike.

and a one kilometer run. Now what makes this really exciting to watch is it's all done inside on a track where they've got a pool in the middle of the track area. They've got almost like a velodrome set up where they can ride their bikes around and then they run around too. So this was such a cool event to see last year on its own. They had music pumping, light shows, sparklers, like they really made this thing a whole festival and event, but now they've partnered with T100. So it sounds like it's going to be even bigger this year.

It's the T111. Did you guys watch it last year?

Josh (42:44.266)
I remember last year is where it was like that sprint finish with a lot of them and then Gwen trying to come from back and Vincent Louie. It was pretty spectacular with all the fireworks and displays that they had going on.

Tom (42:58.138)
I've not, I've not. But I was thinking about going there this weekend because I'm actually really, really close or next weekend.

Jenna-Caer (43:04.236)
yeah. You know, it came across like this is something that I think Trathlon needs. We've seen SuperTry do their indoor triathlons on the treadmills and the trainers, which is very cool to watch. But this actually seeing people like do it in person, riding around the track, they played it up so well with, think, just the entertainment factor, having the bands playing, having the music going, having the announcers out there and the crowd just going crazy with all of it. It was very watchable, which I think is what Trathlon needs more than anything these days. But

This year, we've got some decent names coming out and racing it. We'll take a look at the elite men first. We've got Hayden Wilde is out there, Fetal Thorn, Anna Seguin, Graf, Nicola Azzano, Adrian Brifford, Doc Willis, Chase McQueen, and a number of other names along the line. So we're actually going to see everyone competing for those WTCS points and it'll be one of the few races we see, think, Hayden Wilde doing on the WTCS series. Is there...

Does Battle Thorn have a chance of going against Hayden Wilde or is Hayden going to run away with it? Or are we going to see Chase McQueen just swim away and crush everyone from there? What do you guys think?

Josh (44:13.823)
What's the total time of the race is what like 10 minutes?

Jenna-Caer (44:18.346)
it's crazy short. Yeah, something like that.

Josh (44:20.97)
I think it's like a minute and a half ish or plus for the swim three. mean, what's one, what's a one kilometer pace, three, two and a half minutes. when, yeah. When you're running one and then the bike is by around four, four and a half minutes. So yeah, that's it's about 10 minutes of all out red line. So I, does, that what, what Hayden wants to be doing these days? I can see chase just showing up and doing something like that. But again, these guys are all training for longer distances. So makes it interesting.

Jenna-Caer (44:25.742)
200 meters.

Tom (44:29.43)
Yeah, would say two minutes 50 to 40.

Jenna-Caer (44:29.799)
like a minute? Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (44:51.95)
Yeah, it should be good to see. We've definitely seen Hayden Wild crash it out the Super Tri series, but now he's transitioning to more of that T100 training. Wonder if that'll kind of affect that kick in that high end speed. What do think, Tom?

Tom (45:05.726)
I honestly don't know how much time you can gain. In the swim, what can you gain? Is it 200 meters swim?

Jenna-Caer (45:15.438)
200 meters.

Tom (45:18.198)
Yeah, 200 meters. I honestly don't know a massive crazy lot about short course, but this is mini, mini short, short course. What are the difference? How close was it last year? What margin did someone win?

Josh (45:21.676)
can't separate.

Josh (45:33.786)
These are like practically photo finishes.

Jenna-Caer (45:35.854)
Yeah, yeah, set of readers. Yeah, so transitions will definitely count on this one.

Tom (45:36.138)
Yeah, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I would say I hate him wild.

Tom (45:44.757)
I would say, yeah.

Jenna-Caer (45:46.816)
No, it'll be good to watch it go down there. And definitely what we always don't want to see is someone go off the front and have a flyer and just absolutely destroy it. And hopefully we get some close finishes like last year where it's down to the wire and there were some elbows being thrown around that last corner going into the finishing shoot. It really, it's a good train of watch. If anyone hasn't watched this one last year, check it out and get ready for this weekend because it's going to be a fun one.

On the women's side, we have another few big names here. got Cassandra Bogan will be racing, Elm, got Lauren Lindeman on here. Let's see some other big names, Sandra Doday. So man, Cassandra Bogan, she's just like made for the short, super fast, crazy stuff. It's hard to see anyone going past her.

Josh (46:31.178)
She seems pretty dialed in in those Gerona training sessions that they've all been doing. So I think she's probably ready to get going. New bike, new bike sponsor, I guess. So she's ready to show that off.

Jenna-Caer (46:42.818)
Yeah, we've definitely seen some things lately, but yeah, can't see Cassandra being passed on this.

Tom (46:43.552)
Is this-

Tom (46:48.118)
I would say so it was 150 meter swim. It's still fast, but I was thinking like 142 hundred, that is nuts. yeah, they're running the kilometers in 239 pace. So that's a pretty good going.

Josh (47:01.676)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (47:03.502)
The leg speed that these athletes get going in the short course is absolutely insane to see these days.

Josh (47:09.95)
And for this race too, are there like a number of rounds? can't remember if there's like preliminary rounds, qualifying rounds, and then like a final.

Jenna-Caer (47:17.998)
Last year there was yes there were heat going on because obviously when you have something so super short and they're actually riding around the track and running around it I think they had something like eight athletes at a time somewhere around there I can't remember exactly but they'll have a few heats and then rep are charged to come out to the finals so some people go in a little fresher than others but yeah I think we have good idea of who the top names will be out there but it's just gonna be fun to watch the whole time

Well, we'll definitely see what theatrics they have and if T100 brings a lot more production value to it, but it's hard to imagine they can because it was, they did it well. Like that was very, very watchable trap on even for the lay person who's just not into it. You're not just seeing people go off riding along the road and have a camera view of their side view of their bike, which the trap on geeks love. But the everyday person is like, okay, they're still going. We're still on the same person four hours later.

Josh (47:53.164)
Pretty good already.

Josh (48:09.609)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (48:14.156)
The other race we have going on this weekend is we're actually kicking off the Ironman Pro Series. Now traditionally, Oceanside is kind of the season opener and kickoff for the Ironman series. Well, all the Ironman races in 70.3s, but they popped Geelong in this year as the start. And while it's not quite as stacked as the Oceanside start list, we should definitely still have some good racing down there. We'll start off with the women's this time.

Josh (48:36.918)
Well, we don't know what the Oceanside start list actually is yet because they Thank you to Tri Pole athlete. do kind of know, but Ironman has been holding that one back nice and secure.

Jenna-Caer (48:40.534)
I mean, everyone and their dog is coming over to Oceanside in Ironman, Texas this year.

Jenna-Caer (48:51.892)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm surprised they haven't given us Texas yet either because obviously like it's closed They know who's gonna be in it there at least create some buzz and get us excited about it, but It'll be fun to get a taste of racing and it's interesting to see the pros ideas which races to do So if you do something like a g long in South Africa

that's gonna be a little less competitive, honestly, than something like Oceanside and Texas if you're going stateside. So it's interesting to see how the pros are deciding which ones to go to to kick off their season and get those points, because when every second counts, you think you'd want to go to the little less competitive field instead of having some of the big names crushing it off the front.

We still have some good competition going on here in Geelong. We'll start with the women's side. We've got Hannah Berry, Grace Thet, Elan Andrew, Natalie Vancouverden, Charlotte McShane, Jodie Stimson, Slater. We have a lot more short course names, which we're definitely seeing with being so far out from the Olympics at this point. It seems like everyone's giving the 70.3 distance a go.

But what do you guys think this weekend? are we going to see kind of tearing it up there? Are we going to see some short course coming through or the more traditional 70.3 athletes?

Josh (50:06.292)
or a long distance like Regan Holyoke who is in shape and we know is already ready to go after winning her first Ironman this year. So I'm actually going to go with Regan and say, Hey, look, you're fit and you're ready to go. Who knows what she can do at 70.3 with that fitness, but that's where I'm going to go.

Jenna-Caer (50:09.314)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (50:24.504)
Fair enough. How about you, Tom? Does anyone stand out on that start list who's going to show a run up in Geelong?

Tom (50:31.318)
I mean in the men's field I would say yellow gains.

Josh (50:38.06)
I think we would say that across the board.

Tom (50:39.382)
Yeah, yeah.

Jenna-Caer (50:43.662)
It's hard to go past that. Yeah, on the men's side, we've got like Gaila Gaines, Jake Burtwhistle, Brayden Curry, Maddie Hauser, Aaron Royal, Ben Hamilton, Cam Worth is on every side.

Tom (50:52.374)
But in the women's field, don't think...

I don't think there's like one top dog to call it like that, that is able to win it. I think there are multiple ones to, there's going to be that the race is going to be a lot closer than in the men's field to be honest.

Jenna-Caer (51:14.082)
Yeah, I can definitely see some position changes through this. I Grace Beck has a good go. She's been seriously solid, but I'm really curious to see how Natalie Vancouverdin and Charlotte McShane do going more from that short course to what middle distance, we'll say.

Josh (51:29.276)
It's definitely a great race for the females to show up at and get 70.3 pro series points. Cause like Tom said, it's probably going to be close. You're not going to have that huge, massive difference with Taylor nib going off the front and everyone else losing 10 minutes. it's a great race to, be at and be in the, on the start list. So, yeah, I mean, Hannibal, I think anyone in that top 10 could, could potentially win it. I'm going to stick with Regan though.

Jenna-Caer (51:45.26)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (51:56.098)
Sounds good. Yeah, the men's side, we're definitely going to, I'm curious to see how this one goes down because there are some solid names on here. He said Yellagines, he just absolutely has been crushing it lately. So it'll be interesting to see how he's gone from off season right back into it and see if he's fresh and firing. But the short course athletes.

Josh (52:15.02)
So this is what two weeks before Singapore too, right? So this is kind of like.

Jenna-Caer (52:18.882)
And that's the interesting part. So going from a 70.3, are they going to be just absolutely smashing it to try to get that 70.3 world spot and get some points on the board? They're not going to be doing it.

Josh (52:28.256)
But he doesn't need to because he won worlds. So he's already validated in everything. With the new rules, you don't even have to validate.

Jenna-Caer (52:32.654)
True, true.

Jenna-Caer (52:36.78)
Yeah, so he'll be in it regardless.

Josh (52:39.808)
Yeah. So he's already in Marbella world champs because he won in Topa. so he doesn't have to even finish this race to get to Marbella, but it's pro series points, which is interesting. I can't see him chasing it because I don't think yellow is doing a full distance this year. but he is doing world. So I think it's just something that he's, he's probably down there training, getting ready and go after this and then head off to Singapore and get some heat training.

Jenna-Caer (53:08.398)
best way to get back into racing you guys.

Josh (53:11.372)
you

Jenna-Caer (53:13.358)
It's one way to do it.

Tom (53:13.782)
Yeah, it probably is then I think. Maybe he needs to get one race out of before he gets to like T100. Some people need a little bit of a Ross Buster.

Jenna-Caer (53:27.362)
And you know, could be a confidence boost too if he goes out and has a good day out there because he's definitely, like you have to say he's by far the favorite on here. Compared to T100, it's going to be a lot closer racing, I think.

Tom (53:39.286)
Yeah, and also because he's already living in Australia nowadays that his sponsor bonuses are probably quite good since the Taupo race. he's probably just thinking like, all right, I'll just see how it goes. I'll see how I feel and I'll see it as a good training day, even though he's like tapering a bit for it. And that might be a big payday because yeah, like you said, it's not.

Josh (54:03.052)
That's true. A lot of the Pro Series bonuses in contracts are better than just showing up to any other 70.3 that's not in the Pro Series. So there's a couple grand extra kicker with some of the Pro Deal bonuses.

Jenna-Caer (54:16.27)
Now we've got some of these short course guys like the Jake Burt whistles, the Matthew Houser, we got Kenji Niener. They're all coming across to do a little bit more of the 70.3 racing. What do you think? Are we going to see them just go out there and absolutely smash it or some athletes seems to either jump across, have an incredible result at 70.3 while others really seem to suffer on the bike and the time trial bike. So have you guys heard anything from them on getting TT positions dialed in or if they're really kind of going for the 70.3 distance?

Josh (54:46.092)
I mean, some of them showed up in Bahrain too, right? At the end of the year. So I Kenji for sure. think Kenji is probably a little bit more advanced in the TT bike than Hauser might be at this point. So I see Kenji doing a little better, but Matt Hauser had a pretty good race already in the world cup to kick off the year where he was right there with Hayden.

Jenna-Caer (54:48.792)
Yeah.

Josh (55:08.426)
So we'll see how that all ends up in the 70.3 distance. I also know we got Cam Wharf kicking off his world tour of triathlons. Doing every pro series.

Jenna-Caer (55:16.608)
Is he though? He's on every single start list. The question before every race, will Ken Whorf show up?

Josh (55:28.812)
What do think, Tom? Cam gonna show off for this one?

Tom (55:31.114)
Yeah, I definitely think he is. He's from Australia, he's got family in Australia. So I definitely think he is. Is he still writing for Sky this year or for Ineos?

Jenna-Caer (55:41.257)
One, two.

Jenna-Caer (55:46.316)
I don't think he's doing any world tours, but I'm not.

Tom (55:48.84)
Exactly. could be, because that might be an explanation why he's going for the full, for the full Ironman series, you know, and that he's like, I'm going to attend every race because he must be stopping with, with either world tour cycling or, or not being part of the team or, or not racing for the team. don't know, otherwise you can't just rock up at every race to travel alone is insane. Yeah.

Josh (56:13.004)
Well, that's what I going to say. He's the one person that financially we know could probably handle the flights themselves.

Tom (56:17.641)
Yeah, definitely,

Jenna-Caer (56:18.382)
There we go.

Yeah, those World Tour teams play a little bit better than Trathlin. Well, Trathlin's getting up there now, but definitely has a solid base if he's still racing with them. Or it could be that he's just signed up for everything and see what he can slot in around the racing with the cycling team too. So I guess we will wait and see how many start lines Kam Wirff actually makes it to, or if he's just trolling a little bit and pop in where he can.

We've got one last thing here, Tom, before we let you go for the day. kind of have a bit of a couple quickfire questions to learn a little bit more about you. Nothing too serious or crazy on here, but we will jump in with what's the weirdest thing you've ever eaten during training or racing? Have you ever had like a stop at a gas station where you're just starving and chow down on something odd?

Tom (57:08.118)
Yeah, but what's weird in your eyes? don't know. that is what's weird. Yeah. I don't think I've ever eaten something like very weird, I do like in the past, I've even stopped for like long coffee stops during a long run. Something that lot of people would do or, but not something very dodgy. Not something very dodgy like in food wise.

Josh (57:12.932)
What's weird in his eyes? is a tough question.

Jenna-Caer (57:12.942)
Great.

Jenna-Caer (57:27.82)
Really.

Jenna-Caer (57:34.798)
No gas station sushi on the middle of the ride. See how goes.

Tom (57:38.042)
No, no, no, no, no, I would never have any of that. I just like savage stuff or savory stuff and sugars really. But nothing weird. No.

Jenna-Caer (57:50.22)
Sounds good. If you had to race a triathlon as a pair with another pro, who would it be and why? Now this can be someone that would push you to go faster or it could just be someone who would be fun to spend the day with going through the motions of a triathlon.

Josh (58:04.242)
And not Joe.

Tom (58:07.094)
Maybe as this is going to be my last year, it would be Patrick Lang because when I was watching the sports in 2017, I did a half distance triathlon and all my friends were like, you're only half Ironman, so you're not a real one. I was watching the Ironman World Championships and that was the year that he won for the first time that he was at that time my inspiration to get into.

Like sign up for a full distance triathlon and actually do it. So that would be nice to end it like that.

Jenna-Caer (58:42.914)
That'd be very cool. Kind of come full circle in there. If triathlon had a fourth discipline, what would be the most bizarre activity you'd choose to add that would give you an edge? So something that you'd be better at than most triathletes.

Tom (58:44.064)
Yeah.

Tom (58:58.71)
I would say downhill skiing.

Jenna-Caer (59:05.486)
That'd a good one. It'd be tough to get the location set up that can do a triathlon and a downhill ski.

Tom (59:10.676)
Yeah, that would be very tough. Yeah. But maybe we could start with a little downhill ski and then 180 K bike from like the top of the mountain or the bottom of the mountain to like the sea, then the swim and the marathon, but it would be downhill skiing. Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (59:19.0)
There you go.

Jenna-Caer (59:25.356)
Actually, we could probably find a spot in Canada here during a snow if we can make that happen. If you had to give up one of the three sports forever, could never swim, or run again, which one would it be? I think you're in the majority there.

Tom (59:28.597)
Yeah.

Tom (59:37.418)
swimming without a doubt. Yeah.

Josh (59:39.542)
you

Tom (59:42.55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. mean, it's just such a ball ache, always getting the swim trunks and the towel and then show up with your, your literally your soul on your arms in the, the changing rooms. It's, it's just, um, there are times that I enjoy swimming, but it's, uh, scarce.

Jenna-Caer (01:00:00.28)
definitely hear you there.

Josh (01:00:00.382)
It does feel good afterwards sometimes. it's a, it's a good, the accomplishment. did it. I survived. I can eat.

Tom (01:00:03.21)
Yeah, because you get out of the water. That's why it feels good. Yeah, you're done. Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (01:00:05.174)
We're done with it.

Jenna-Caer (01:00:12.59)
Next up, do you have a guilty pleasure song that gets you pumped up during training or racing?

Tom (01:00:19.424)
guilty pleasure song. Not necessarily a song, but I would say

Jenna-Caer (01:00:21.112)
Yeah.

Tom (01:00:28.95)
Techno music, like DJ Daddy Trance, yeah, that kind of stuff. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that gets me more than... I mean, I also like to listen to Beethoven when I'm studying or something, but that wouldn't get me hyped for a race.

Jenna-Caer (01:00:33.838)
Can't see pumped up and ready to fire.

Jenna-Caer (01:00:46.227)
No, definitely not.

Josh (01:00:48.14)
I'm sure there's somebody out there listening to Beethoven before a race.

Tom (01:00:51.016)
Yeah, everyone's got their own rituals, you know.

Jenna-Caer (01:00:55.18)
And then last one, is there a piece of advice you've gotten over the years that really kind of resonated with you, that stuck with you?

Tom (01:01:03.03)
Uhhhhmmmm

Tom (01:01:07.678)
Yeah, I think it's not really a piece of advice that I've been given, I think sometimes we always, everyone is very ambitious in their goals. And sometimes you get caught up so much in your own disappointment because you've got such high goals that afterwards you end up looking back at a time that you never appreciate what you were doing.

And I see this with a lot of people that, whether it's professionals or amateurs racing, the amount of time that people are like very disappointed day, very disappointed. where, where I'm thinking like, wow, you know, what you've achieved today is actually something you can be really proud of. you, just don't want to be, looking back at a time where you always said to yourself, I was disappointed. was disappointed and it's a privilege to be fit. So I think, you're always.

I got to stay positive and out of every situation need to look at it and try and see the positive from it. And there are people out there who would literally want to trade what you have or what you're doing. So yeah, I definitely think that is the thing I've learned most over the years in triathlon.

Josh (01:02:26.154)
I can appreciate that.

Jenna-Caer (01:02:27.362)
Yeah, definitely something I've been guilty of too. That is an excellent piece of advice in there. Well, I think we'll close out with that. Thank you so much for joining us, Tom. This is really great to get a little bit more insight into you and what you've got going on these days. And we appreciate you joining. Thanks for coming on.

Tom (01:02:42.698)
Yeah, thanks for the chat and appreciating you for the invitation. And hopefully I'll see you somewhere this year in Europe, like maybe Challenge Road or something. And then I'll make sure to bring something for you.

Josh (01:02:52.873)
Yeah.

Jenna-Caer (01:02:53.112)
There we go, on the bucket list.

Josh (01:02:55.734)
We'll work our way over to Europe somehow. Actually, speaking of, what is the name of the product and where can people find it if they're in Europe?

Tom (01:03:03.35)
It's called gonna from going to then it's called a gonna fuel so but the brands called gonna they can find it at gunna fuel comm or on on Instagram and Yeah, they'll probably see me sharing it

Jenna-Caer (01:03:15.534)
I will put those links in there so people can check it out in the show notes too. But until then, have a great evening here.

Tom (01:03:26.144)
Super sweet and until next time.

Josh (01:03:26.348)
Thanks, guys.

Jenna-Caer (01:03:27.95)
See you.